Ana Cabrera Reports : MSNBCW : June 3, 2024 7:00am-8:00am PDT : Free Borrow & Streaming : Internet Archive (2024)

the immigration crisis a major issue for u.s. voters this november. sheinbaum will become america's crucial partner to avoid another surge at the border. >> nbc's guad venegas with that report. that does it for us this morning. we'll be back tomorrow at 6:00 a.m. ana cabrera picks up the coverage right now. right now on "ana cabrera reports," breaking news at a courthouse in delaware, hunter biden's trial beginning with jury selection. the witnesses we expect to see and how his father, the president is approaching the proceedings. the countdown to donald trump's sentencing. his new warning about what could happen if he gets jail time. also ahead, history made in mexico, electing its first female and first jewish president. what does it mean for diplomacy with the u.s.? later, the new uncertainty in fragile cease-fire

negotiations between israel and hamas and what we're hearing from the families of hostages about this potential deal. great to be with you. it's 10:00 eastern. i'm ana cabrera reporting from new york. breaking news in wilmington, delaware, this morning where for the first time the son of a sitting president is standing trial not far from his father's election headquarters. hunter biden's federal gun case beginning this morning with jury selection. he faces three counts tied to possession of a gun while using narcotics. he has pleaded not guilty. this trial coming just days after another historic first, donald trump's guilty verdict on all 34 counts in his new york hush money case. nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian is outside the courthouse. nbc news white house correspondent monica alba and criminal defense attorney, danny

cevallos. court has been in session for about an hour and a half. what can you tell us, ken, about what's happening so far? >> reporter: good morning, ana. jury selection is under way. the judge brought in 250 prospective jurors, questioning 50 at a time per session in her courtroom. so far we've seen questions to three prospective jurors. the first person was disqualified after he said he couldn't be objective because he believes that owning a firearm is a good-gifrn right. a second juror was a donor and volunteer to the hillary clinton campaign in 2008. she's qualified, not yet seated, but qualified. they'll go through this process all day and perhaps into tomorrow as they try whittle down a jury. here in the state of delaware where joe biden has been a major political figure for 52 years. first elected to the senate in 1972. so hunter biden is in the courtroom. we saw dr. jill biden, the first

lady walk in. we have a statement from the president where he says he's not going to comment on a federal case, but he supports his son as a loving father. >> i understand, again, jill biden is there, so he's surrounded by support. danny, all 250 potential jurors have been summoned, again, 50 at a time. they're going to be asked 47 different questions. here is a few examples. do your views regarding the 2024 election or of any of the candidates for president in any way prevent you from being a fair and i'm partial juror in this case? do you believe robert hunter biden is being prosecuted in this case because his father is the president of the united states and a candidate for president? do you disagree that the law should apply equally to all including the son of the president? are these the right questions, and how challenging could it be to pick a jury for a trial involving the president's son? >> about as challenging as it

was a few weeks ago to pick a jury in new york for a former president. this will be anti as difficult as it was in the new york state criminal trial of donald trump. in new york state lawyers are much more involved in the jury selection process. when you're in federal court, it really is the judge's show. this is not a place where you're going to see a lot of attorney involvement and direct attorney interaction with the jurors. when you're in federal court, the judge handles the questioning, the judge handles the voir dire. the attorneys are present for everything, whether it be at sidebar talking to a potential juror. but this is going to be the judge's show. yes, the attorneys have had input up until now about the questions that are going to be asked, but expect this to move probably a lot faster than maybe we just saw with the last major trial which was last week of the former president, donald trump. >> you can't ignore the timing, right? right after the verdict in that trial. how do you ensure potential jurors who may be motivated by

revenge don't get through? >> ensure, using that word, you can never ensure. you can never know where a juror is ultimately being truthful. the entire system is predicated on regular citizens coming in and telling the truth, that they're honest with not only themselves but themselves about their own biases. maybe that's aided by the fact that not everybody wants to serve on a jury, so they may have a motive to come up with reasons why they are not able to sit impartially. being very serious here, most jurors come in and have an honest discussion internally about whether or not they can be unbiased. you saw it in the trump trial where more han half raised their hands and said i can't be unbiased and left. that's what happens every time you try to seat a jury when you go through voir dire and answer these questions. during these questions, a lot of people err on the side of, hey, i'm raising my hand and i want to tell you about my background

and the judge will decide whether that story means they can be fair and impartial. it really is a process by which judges try to really talk to the juror and find out, get to the bottom of their prior experience, whether it renders them fatally biased or they have biases that i can set aside and judge the case on the evidence and the facts. >> ken has already mentioned some of the jurors who came forward saying i can't be fair and impartial here. monica, president biden is there in wilmington not at the courthouse, the first lady is there. we know ashley biden, the president's daughter is also there to support her brother, her half brother. what do we know about the president's mindset as his son goes to trial? >> reporter: this has really take n an emotional toll on the family. that's since hunter biden was in the throes of addiction and now on the path to recovery, and now confronting these multiple legal

challenges. this is something as the president protest wroet /* /* wrote in a statement this morning, not the president of the united states in the midst of a super heated re-election battle. of course, that is the backdrop to all of us. still the biden campaign, the white house, don't plan to have any kind of rapid response operation or any kind of formal reaction to what's going on in hunter biden's proceedings. but they are, of course, putting this statement front and center. the fact that the first lady is there really tells you everything you need to know about how this is affecting them from a family standpoint, from those dynamics, and the president even referenced in this statement that the, of course, challenge of coming through something like the addiction that hunter battled during the time period that this case is going to cover has been difficult, but that they are so proud of the man that he is today. they write that they really have boundless love for him. they're hoping his advisers tell

me, that voters will get a sense of what many families struggle with when it comes to this kind of substance abuse. they're hoping that voters will see this as, again, parents who are really worried about their son who want to be there for him, who want to stand by him and not about these larger questions. but, of course, we know over the course of the last few weeks leading up to the verdict in former president trump's case and president biden's own words on friday, when it comes to the actual legal matters here, the president's message is expected to be the same, that no matter what this jury ends up deciding, it should be respected and that the rule of law is paramount. still we have to just appreciate the fact that the president in the last week has been, of course, marking the somber anniversary of the death of his other son beau biden. this is coming at a time when, of course, he's preparing for the first general election debate. all of these things are coming

together at the same time, and that certainly weighs on the president, weighs on the first lady. they want their message today to be one of we will support our family no matter what and we hope that americans see that for what it is. >> ken, lay out the timeline for us of how this case is going to roll out and potential witnesses. >> reporter: right, ana, we expect jury selection to take one to two days, probably sometime into tomorrow. the judge says she expects a one to two-week trial. it's a pretty simple case, frankly. he filled out a form, he bought a gun. the government says he was addicted to drugs at the time. they have to show he was using drugs. a couple of the witnesses they're going to put on, it's going to be tough for the biden family. kathleen bul, hunter biden's ex-wife and hallie biden who was reman tickly involved after her husband beau biden died. she was actually the person who took the colt revolver from him. he possessed it only 11 days,

and left it in a dumpster. she was concerned, according to evidence we've seen, that he was using drugs and was a danger to himself and others. she eerps going to be asked to testify about that. there will be electronic evidence, texts, photos, whatsapp messages, some of which was on the infamous hunter biden laptop that he left at a repair shop in delaware. the defense will have the opportunity to challenge the authenticity of any messages they believe are fake. the government will use that to show, they say, that he was using drugs at the time. >> danny, how straightforward is this case for prosecutors? if you're the defense, how do you counter? >> this is a gun possession case, also a false statement case. when you fill out the firearm document when you buy a firearm, you make certain statements. they're alleging he made false statements about whether or not he's a habitual user -- excuse me -- unlawful user or addicted

to a controlled substance and that he possessed the firearm while he was a user or addict to a controlled substance. on the government's side, straightforward. they'll introduce evidence you don't normally have in these cases which are very rarely brought. >> it's like his own words in his memoir. >> exactly. most criminal defendants have not written a memoir that the government can mine for statements that are harmful to the defendant. you don't normally have this much evidence of addiction from the defendant himself. so that's why the government sees this as a case that is easier to get a conviction in. they're basically going to lay out the form, the 4473, the statements by hunter biden, any other evidence that shows he may have been an addict at the time he possessed the fire rm a and the tiement he made the statement he was not an addict or unlawful user. the defense's case a little tougher. they may argue, given a little forecast, for example, they might argue that hunter at the

time he filled out the form had been in rehab for, i think it was about 11 days. that highlights the nebulous nature of this particular subsection of the statute. an unlawful user or addict. what is an addict? yes, it's defined by u.s. law, but what does it mean that hunter may have thought, i'm 11 days clean, i'm sober, i'm no longer an addict. that i expect to see as one of the themes of the defense here. >> danny cevallos and ken dilanian, monica alba, thank you very much. we'll check back and keeping our aye on the courthouse all morning long. a historic first in mexico. we are in mexico city as that country elects its first female leader. first, what donald trump is saying about, quote, a breaking point for the country if he goes to jail, as his words come back to haunt him. >> i felt, and i could have done it, but i felt it would have

been a terrible thing, and then this happened to me. hillary clinton -- i didn't say lock her up. >> for what she's done, they should lock her up. >> lock her up is right. t. ri-zo. ♪ ♪ i got the power of 3. i lowered my a1c, cv risk, and lost some weight. in studies, the majority of people reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. i'm under 7. ozempic® lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as stroke, heart attack, or death in adults also with known heart disease. i'm lowering my risk. adults lost up to 14 pounds. i lost some weight. ozempic® isn't for people with type 1 diabetes. don't share needles or pens, or reuse needles. don't take ozempic® if you or your family ever had medullary thyroid cancer, or have multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if allergic to it. stop ozempic® and get medical help right away if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, or an allergic reaction. serious side effects may include pancreatitis. gallbladder problems may occur. tell your provider about vision problems or changes. taking ozempic® with a sulfonylurea or insulin may increase low blood sugar risk.

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the former president claims he's prepared for the harshest of all, prison time. >> i'm okay with it. i saw one of my lawyers the other day on television saying, no, you don't want to do that to the president. you don't beg for anything. that's the way it is. i'm not sure the public would stand for it. >> -- house arrest -- >> i think it would be tough for the public to take. at a certain point there's a breaking point. >> before that phase of this unprecedented case arrives in july, trump and his gop allies are saying the appeals process should leapfrog to the supreme court. joining us nbc news correspondent dasha burns, new york trial and appellate lawyer mark souderror, and anna kaminsky. sentencing a few days before the rnc, what can we expect between now and then and what else are we hearing from donald trump in the wake of this verdict? >> you heard he did on truth

social ask for the supreme court to step in. he is criticizing, once again, d.a. brag and judge merchan. the timeline between now and then, we're likely to see activity on the part of the prosecution, d.a. bragg neglected to say what they would pursue. he said the prosecution will speak through some court filings in the coming weeks. that's what we're going to be watching for. of course, the former president likely continuing to lash out between now and then. >> we heard a clip there where he suggests there could be a breaking point for the public, mark, if he's in prison. could that be interpreted as a threat? >> i think that's a dangerous statement, and it's been corrective perceived as that. the thought that the supreme court is going to step in here, it's really a hail mary for him. if it happens at all, his grandchildren will be grown by that time. this is going to work its way through the court system. the strongest card he has to play right now is delay. even if the sentencing actually takes place on the first

scheduled day, july 11th, that's just the beginning of the clock running for when he has 30 days to appeal, several months before he has to perfect that, submit briefs in support of his appeal, answering briefs, the court would have an argument and a decision. that's going to be after the election. he has the benefit of time right now and that's working in his fave record. >> what do you see, ana, as the factors the judge might consider when it comes to sentencing? >> the judge is going to consider sort of two categories. the first is the offense, the nature of the offense, the facts that the judge himself witnessed during the trial, and then the second is who the defendant is, and that's a big, big, big bucket. so everything about trump, the court is going to be able to consider. that's things as simple as his prior criminal history, which we know there is none. but all sort of other things, his support, the fact that he was the president, the fact that he's running for president again. all those things the court is going to be able to consider. in addition to that, it's all of

trump's conduct that is including this period of time now. >> mark, you have a lot of experience when it comes to this appeals court. you say there aren't the typical red flags for reversal in this particular case. as you look at it, explain what you see and why you feel trump doesn't have a strong case for appeal. >> sure. no one wants to be a criminal defendant. if you're going to be a defendant, new york is the place to be. it's probably the fairest jurisdiction in the country. he received a scrupulously fair trial from the moment of jury selection, as danny cevallos said, which allowed his lawyers to very thoroughly vet the people who were going to be serving on the jury, right through the trial which was conservatively conducted through the time of the verdict. the judge took a conservative course. he allowed every opportunity for the defense to make legitimate objections. he read straight and narrow the accepted jury charges, and he didn't stray from it, didn't engage in some of the activities that can put a conviction at

jeopardy, such as trying to explain what a jury charge means, what something like causing means. he stuck to the straight and narrow. i think at least in the new york courts, which the appeal is going to work its way up, it's a long haul and a stretch to think this is going to get overturned. >> we're continuing to hear more and more reaction coming from the verdicts. stormy daniels now has given her first public comments since the verdict. let's listen. >> it's like when you have a child and sometimes you take the electronics away work. but if your trial is very artistic, they don't care, they'll go to color in their coloring book. you have to find the punishment that not just matches the crime and is fair and just, but impacts that particular person. >> so based on what we know about trump, dasha, what kind of penalty could make a difference here? what's he saying about the potential of a jail sentence or house arrest and so forth?

>> here's the thing, ana. there's the legal piece of it which you're also articulate at going through, and there's the politics. the thing about trump and his team, they've gotten so good at spinning any sort of legal jeopardy into a benefit politically. you saw him have to pay hundreds of millions of dollars in these other civil cases, and that turned into a rallying cry for his base. it's a very slim chance according to the lawyers i've been speaking with if something like jail or house arrest were to happen, you better bet that would rile up his base in potentially an unprecedented way. that's a tough line to walk with the former president, is even if it's legally and practically punitive and painful, politically it gives him that jolt with a lot of the voters that support him. >> what does he care more about? his personal comfort or the political boost he could get. >> right now it's the court of public opinion because we've got

an election coming up. that's the focus for him. he's saying in this interview, hey, i'm okay with it, whatever they choose, jail or house arrest. you heard him say but the public won't stand for it and at a certain point there's a breaking point. we've heard him use that rhetoric before, to your point, that's why it can be so dangerous. >> is deterrence, anna, a factor here when we talk about the sentence for donald trump? would the judge be thinking about that, okay, if i fine him, he may be having to pay something that was along the lines of what he paid in the hush money, $130,000. is that really going to change behavior? >> i think the judge is supposed to be punishing for the crime that occurred and not -- although deterrence, yes, both specifically for the defendant and generally for the public is part of this, we're dealing with such a unique individual that it's -- by that i mean a unique defendant that, when we say deterrence, you really have to think about people who are in

the same situation that are going to be deterred from doing the same conduct. so given a finding of guilt and what will eventually be a conviction which will be the sentence and the finding of guilt put together, that in and of itself would be deterrence for most people who would be in this position of falsifying business records. it's really hard to make a comparison between trump who is so unique, what we've been talking about all along, and any other individual thinking about this potential criminality. >> two other points, one of the major factors that a judge will consider is acceptance of responsibility. it's like live that mr. trump will get a zero in that category. so that's going to certainly count against him. the other thing, and this falls over into the political area. whatever sentence he gets, let's say home confinement, and i'm just speculating on that, it's likely he'll get a stay. in other words, it wouldn't be imposed until the time for the

appeal runs. >> years, right? >> that's going to be years. >> former fbi director james comey was on msnbc yesterday. here is what he said about any logistical challenges that could arise over putting trump behind bars. >> no. they would put him in a double wide somewhere out near the fence, out in the grass. he would eat there, shower there, exercise there, he'd be away, as dania perry said, from general possible lags, but it's obviously doable. >> mark, do you agree? does judge merchan's history give us any clues as to how he may approach this? >> his history tells us he's very fair. don't forget this is a first-time offender, and it's a class e which is a very low level of felony. many, if not most people who were convicted, do not get a prison sentence. i think judge merchan will be right down the middle, weigh all the factors. i don't think the fact that he

was so put to aggravation by mr. trump during the trial is going to influence him. i think he's going to look at the objective criteria that he has to weigh and make a very fair and sound decision. >> thank you all so much for the conversation. happening right now on capitol hill, dr. anthony fauci, former chief medical advisor to the president and former director of the institute of allergy and infectious diseases is testifying about the country's response to the coronavirus pandemic. this is fauci's first time testifying since his retirement. nbc's ali vitali joins us now on the hill. why are they holding this hearing with dr. fauci now? and what have we heard so far? >> reporter: ana, this is a subcommittee focused on the coronavirus pandemic, both the one we saw in 2020 and also an avoiding whatever kind of pandemic could come next. so far we've seen the two ranking members of this committee, both doctors themselves, start their opening statements. we've yet to actually hear from

fauci, 000 you can see him there on the screen. right now it looks like ranking member ruiz is finishing up his opening remarks. even just in the opening remarks, you can see the difference between the ways democrats and republicans themselves are likely to approach today's hearing. this on the republican side, we've heard from the chairman of this committee about the ways that he wants to go back and go over the kinds of government regulations that were put out in the immediate aftermath of the covid pandemic, things like social distancing, why it was six feet, why children were told to wear masks, all of these key points that have become red meat for the conservative base over the course of the last several years. that's going to be a focus likely that fauci is going to speak to in his opening statement and, of course, have to play defense on as he sees members of this committee, congresswoman marjorie taylor greene, congressman ronnie jackson, both people who frequently lashed out at fauci.

on the democratic side we'll be watching to see, a, the ways in which those attacks on fauci are countered. we already heard it in the ranking member's statement, trying to say none of this blame should be placed at fauci's feet, but also saying the committee shouldn't be looking backwards. instead, they should be looking forwards at preventative measures. all this leaves fauci in a hot seat in front of a republican committee very eager to get him here publicly, although they've had him behind closed doors for about 14 hours earlier this year. >> ali vitali, thank you so much. up next on "ana cabrera reports," history in mexico. the first female and first jewish president elected in that country's 200-year history. and then the differing messages between israel and the u.s. over a new peace plan for gaza. what it means for a region in search of a cease-fire. the only migraine medication that helps treat and prevent,

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numbing pain relief available. so, do your thing like a pro, pain-free. absorbine pro. right now a new day in mexico is bringing new leadership. former mexico city mayor and nobel prize-winning climate scientist claudia sheinbaum shattering glass ceilings to become mexico's first female and first jewish president. he landslide victory closes out a violent election cycle that left 34 political candidates dead. it also raises new questions about america's relationship with its southern neighbor and major issues like immigration emerging as a big issue in our

own election this year. nbc's guad venegas is in mexico city with more. >> reporter: the preliminary count is in, and mexican officials say slaud yeah sheinbaum won 58-60% of the vote, enough for her to declare victory. overnight a big change for the country with claudia taking over, the first woman president in 200 years of mexican history. she's going to have a lot of challenges, especially dealing with the violence that affected the election cycle and also negotiating immigration policy with the united states, but last night it was all celebration after the historic win. this morning mexico electing the first woman president and first jewish president in its 200-year history. claudia sheinbaum, a close ally of mexico's current president obrador declaring victory

overnight. the election also happening across the u.s. with 20 mexican consulates allowing voters to cast ballots. >> as a young adult, it is really exciting to come vote for my own country. >> reporter: in mexico some voters waiting hours at polling locations. >> i think it's a necessary change and it's a good sign of progress in society. >> reporter: sheinbaum is an academic who shared a nobel peace prize for her work on climate change. it's the growing power and violence of criminal organizations that are expected to be her great elf challenge. hundreds have been killed at campaign events including dozens of candidates. mexico's drug cartels and gangs are thought to be behind the attacks. >> 20 years ago mexican drug cartels were just shipping drugs to the u.s. now they're doing business locally and extorting people and government, so they need to have a political base. elections are the opportunity to increase the control. >> reporter: criminal organizations are also profiting

from the smuggling of migrant to the u.s. with thousands arriving daily through mexico's southern border. the immigration crisis a major issue for u.s. voters this november. sheinbaum will become america's crucial partner to avoid another surge at the border. and moving forward, we'll be paying special attention to see what type of relationship sheinbaum will develop with president biden or donald trump depending on who wins the election in the u.s. there's a lot that has to be negotiated between the two countries. let's keep in mind mexico shares a large border with the u.s. but is also the largest trading partner with the u.s. also, sheinbaum will be different from the last two presidents mexico has because she speaks fluent english. she studied in the u.s. at berkeley and stanford. she might be much more relevant to americans. back to you. >> guad venegas, thank you for that report today there's new uncertainty over reaching a cease-fire deal in the middle east.

a senior israeli official tells nbc news that president biden's description of israel's cease-fire proposal was, quote, not accurate. the official disputes that israel agreed to fully withdraw its troops from gaza as part of a deal to free hostages held by hamas. this latest roadblock comes as we learn there are no operating hospitals or clinics in rafah as the relief agencies say more than a million people have been pushed out of the region. nbc's raf sanchez joins us in tel aviv. raf, israeli officials are telling you what the president announced here wasn't exactly what they agreed to. if they don't agree to these terms, what does it mean for reaching a deal? >> reporter: ana, the future of this cease-fire proposal looking very, very uncertain. just 72 hours after president biden speaking at the white house laid out what he says was a proposal that israel had

already agreed to. today we're hearing from prime minister benjamin netanyahu speaking in front of an israeli parliamentary committee, he is saying israel has not agreed to end the war until hamas is destroyed. he says president biden left out parts of that proposal. now, the context here is prime minister netanyahu is under intense pressure from the far right of his own coalition who are saying that they will topple his government if he goes ahead with the deal as outlined by president biden earlier. the prime minister also under a lot of pressure from the united states, from the families of hostages to go forward with this deal, but at this point, it just is not clear what the israeli government's position is on a proposal that president biden says originated from the israeli government. in terms of hamas, egypt's foreign minister earlier said hamas used this deal positively,

but we have yet to have a formal response from the group. ana. >> you've spoken to family members of the hostages. what's their reaction to where things stand right now? >> reporter: yeah, that's right, ana. we spoke earlier this morning to the parent of hirsh goldberg pole len who was kidnapped from the nova music festival, part of his left arm blown off by hamas grenades. i want you to listen to a little bit of what his mother rachel told us. >> i am nervous. i'm frightened. i also just know you cannot count your hostages until they're home and you're hugging them. >> reporter: what is your message to the leaders of israel and the leaders of hamas? >> i would beg the leaders to act like leaders. part of being a leader is you

put your people ahead of your own personal self-interest. i would besiege all the leaders to do that. >> reporter: now, ana, this time yesterday the official numbers of hostages in gaza was 125. that number has now been lowered to 124. the idf says it's discovered the body of a man thought to be held hostage in gaza, in fact was killed on october 7th. we're hearing from palestinian civilians inside gaza, they, too, are absolutely desperate for a cease-fire. they're saying this u.s.-backed proposal has come late, but it is better than nothing, and they are hoping, hoping, hoping, that the two sides can get to a deal. >> raf sanchez, thank you. up next on "ana cabrera reports," democrats are angling to turn donald trump's historic guilty verdict into campaign victories. is that a winning strategy, or are they playing with fire? - so this is pickleball? - pickle!

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welcome back. new attention this morning on the race for the white house. democrats are looking to use donald trump's 34 felony convictions by a jury of his peers as proof that he is unfit to occupy the west wing. as we near election day this november, will it work? republican strategist susan del percio and democratic strategist basil smikle joining us.

50 democrats from elected members of congress to party operatives reveal the party is hungry to tell voters mr. trump's conviction makes him unfit and worried that mr. biden will not use the bully pulpit to press that argument. basil, do you think he should? >> i think should. he might have sensitivities because of what his son is going through. that said, i do think he needs to lean into the contract. here is donald trump who is all about chaos and convictions, and here we are, democrats about good governance and good policy, best economy the america a has seen in decades. as long as he presents that contrast, that's really important. there are other democrats, surrogates for him that can go in a lot harder. this is important, if you take hakeem jeffries, for example, he's got to win back congress for the democrats. many of those seats will be in new york. imagine democrats going after the purple district republicans who are going to have to find a

way to defend donald trump, the convicted felon, and the person who has leaned hard in repealing roe versus wade. the democrats can lean in harder than the president can and perhaps should from the bully pulpit. >> susan, donald trump has been given the nickname teflon don, able to survive political controversies and scandals that so many others haven't been able to survive or wouldn't be able to survive. think about his presidency, two impeachments, special counsel inquiry, four indictments that have only seemed to fuel his presidential efforts this time around, but now he is a convicted felon. i have to wonder, is there a chance that he politically -- this is just one too many things? >> maybe among a small group of people, but at the end of the day -- when the democrats want to attack donald trump as unfit, they've been doing that for

eight, nine years now. he is unfit. we know that. but again, using the convicted felon, i think to basil's point, is more about taking away the law and order issue from republicans. imagine, like you said, instead of convict and chaos, you had democracy and law and order. that's how they should be used. the president isn't afraid to take a swipe. we know on the debate question he said, hey, donald, i know you're available on wednesdays, while he was in court. i think that's what we should expect to see from the president, a few moves like that here and there. it will be on the surrogate's level. now, republicans, those who had it with donald trump have it more now, they dislike him more. here's the question for the biden folks. are the republicans that had it with donald trump in 2020 and voted for biden in 2020, will

they come out again for biden? they won't vote for trump. they're probably staying -- they definitely won't vote for trump, but a lot of them still aren't too happy with the biden administration and his tenure. so perhaps they won't come out and vote for joe biden, and that small number was 4 or 5% of republicans. that's something democrats have to watch. >> i have to say this quickly, that's why i say anger only gets you to 49%. you have to like your person, your candidate, to get to the 51, meaning, to susan's point, i think the majority of americans, if they haven't made up their mind, they know how democrats feel about donald trump. the question is can those voters, can independent voters feel that the democrats offer a strong alternative? i can make the argument and many can make the argument that they can. even in that sort of negative messages about donald trump, they still have to come back and say this is why you should vote for a democrat. those two things need to be in

place at the same time. >> but it's both the democrats and republicans who need those independent voters. when you look at some of the polling after the verdict, you do see republicans rallying around trump, among gop voters, 34% say they're more likely to vote for trump. only 11% say they're less likely to vote for him. among independent voters, 16% are more likely while 26% is less likely. susan, is the maga world underestimating the potential peril of putting a candidate on the ballot who is now a convicted criminal? >> it's not going to change. that's the fact. they are going to put -- there's nothing risky. they are. come the convention donald trump will be the republican nominee. i don't see that changing. i don't see someone coming out of left field, donald trump saying, oh, i'm just not going to accept the nomination. he's running for president. let's not forget -- to stay out of jail.

that's the purpose of his candidacy. when we look at the numbers, the polling numbers, first of all, a snapshot after the conviction is hard to -- >> you've got to say just hesitant to make conclusions. >> it's more of a reason. now i can say it's not that i like biden and hate trump, but now that he's a convicted felon, that's too much. it's more justifying why you don't want to support donald trump, and you were probably already there. >> again, that's why the decision to push donald trump to debate when he did is such a great decision because the timing is probably going to be after the verdict, there might be some guilty verdicts in there. i don't know if we ever thought it would be the 34. but there's enough there that he could be in that debate and start hitting and putting republicans on the fence, are you going to really support this guy? how much are you going to stand next to him? >> thank you so much, basil smikle and susan del percio.

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this morning life is slowly returning to normal in downtown atlanta after a two-day outage of water left homes without water and shut down businesses across the city. water pressure was back on sunday, but some residents were still under a boil water order. first term mayor andre dynamicens is facing serious criticism after pipes burst in downtown and midtown. let's get to atlanta. priya, i understand officials are expected to give an update any moment. what exactly happened here? >> reporter: yeah, it's been a very difficult and frustrating weekend for so many people here in atlanta.

the water main breaks actually happened on friday, but as you mentioned, mayor andre dickens and the city didn't update people who live here until 8:00 p.m. on friday, and then they didn't issue another update for another 12 hours, which had many residents here in atlanta extremely angry because, as you mentioned, there was no drinking water that they had access to. they didn't have running toilets or showers, and so he finally had a press conference on saturday afternoon where he apologized and acknowledged the fact that he wasn't that transparent and he wasn't that communicative. he actually even wasn't in the city of atlanta when any of this happened. he was in memphis, tennessee, but he came back and promised the residents of atlanta he was going to issue updates every two hours until this problem was resolved. he's actually right behind me here, which is the scene of one of the water main breaks that still hasn't been fully repaired. we expect to get an update from him sometime soon about what's going on with this specific location. we did get an opportunity to

speak with him on nbc news now this morning, and let's take a listen about what he had to say about where things stand. >> we are at a place now where they are in the hole fixing it, and we should see some good results soon. i'm hoping that the boil water advisory can be lifted within the hour or within the next few hours. that will give folks a level of comfort. >> reporter: so the mayor did issue a state of emergency here in atlanta to try to free up some funds and be able to mobilize city crews to work on these repairs in a quicker manner, but this impacted so many people. emory university hospital had to divert patients who were coming there in their ambulances and everywhere from the atlanta jackson hartsfield airport to the georgia supreme court were impacted by these water outages. >> even a concert, megan thee stallion's concert was postponed from friday to sunday, so just no stone left unturned or i

guess nothing left untouched. priya, thank you for the update. we'll monitor the upcoming press conference there, bring newer information to our viewers as we get it. we'll also have an update from the gun trial of the sitting president's son hunter biden. plus, how a new president in mexico could change how the u.s. clamps down on immigration at our southern border. border. would come and go, i figured it wasn't a big deal. then i saw my doctor and found out i have afib, and that means there's about a 5 times greater risk of stroke. symptoms like irregular heartbeat, heart racing, chest pain, shortness of breath, fatigue, or light- headedness can come and go. but if you have afib, the risk of stroke is always there. if you have one or more symptoms, get checked out. holding off on seeing a doctor won't change whether or not you have afib. but if you do, making that appointment can help you get ahead of stroke risk. contact a doctor and learn more at notimetowait.com

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